Is the shidduch crisis real?

General
#55

Halacha of beards is off topic

Bottom line is that one needs to be open minded regarding levush beard or hat
I know a couple, married a few years, I asked the Mrs, what hat does your hubby wear?
She looks at said hubby and in a puzzled tone asks, Hub? What hat do you wear?

Point is she didnt know, Girls ( and to a lesser degree boys ) have this image of the perfect mate.
Silly people, number one should be midos, then in-the-ballpark hashkafa, they have to have fairly similar goals in what the home will look like.
Nothing else really matters in the long run.

#56

I think that it boils down to if he really wants a beard (for any reason) and she doesn’t want him to have one (for any reason) - and it is a deal breaker, then they are not a shidduch.

Is it any different if she wears earrings and he doesn’t like her to wear them? I know I guy who was set up with a woman who had a couple of piercings in each ear. He could live with one in each ear, but not more. They both, B"H, found someone else to marry.

#57

Choosy is a label that WILL hurt people in the parsha, so I suggest you don’t tell it to anyone in the parsha, and instead be supportive. Just trying to inform you because I am sure your intent is not to hurt.

1 Like
#58

I can’t disagree with what people mean when they use a particular phrase. But why is the number of men that are still single not part of the problem? According to this definition, the more men that are single, the better – as long as the delta is smaller.

#59

For what definition of “choosy”?

I mean logically, there are 3 reasons I can think of why someone isn’t married:

  1. They haven’t met anyone
  2. They met someone, but that person rejected them
  3. They met someone, and rejected that person

Now if someone is at all in category 3, then the next subdivision we can make is, what are possible reasons to reject someone. And there are two scales you can rank reasons on: intrinsic and extrinsic. By intrinsic I mean, one can rate reasons on a scale of reasonableness. And by extrinsic I mean one can measure them based on their outcome.

In other words, if someone feels that they need X in a marriage, one question you can ask is, are they right. How terrible would it be for them not to have X? Would they be temporarily disappointed? Miserable for the rest of their life? So unable to deal with not having X that the marriage wouldn’t last? Etc. etc. etc. And the second question you can ask is, is X realistic? Is there anyone available for them to marry that can provide X? Are there lots of people that can? Etc. etc. etc.

I have negligible anecdotal information, and even less data. I think really the first step is to have relevant data.

But it seems likely that (1) at least half of the population is significantly in category 3, and (2) by extrinsic measures those people are too choosy. So perhaps one can argue that part of the problem is a significant impedance mismatch between people’s point on the intrinsic scale and on the extrinsic scale.

In other words, perhaps people’s needs and expectations are not calibrated with what is available.

Thoughts?

1 Like
#60

Singles today have an illusion of marriage.
they assume marriage is

  1. Happily ever after.
  2. My spouse will forever look young and handsome /pretty.
  3. Never lose their cool, get aggravated or anguished
  4. my spouse will always the right mix of strong and vulnerable.
  5. will always put me first, even if it places them in physical or emotional harm.
  6. my spouse will be frum, fun, respected by all.
    ( i’m sure there is much more but you get the drift)

Point here is that divorce is unfortunately on the rise, due the impossible demands we tend to have on our spouses.

Marriage from a Jewish standpoint differs from the world at large.
As a Jew, i have a chiyuv to raise a family of G-d fearing Jews, to perpetuate the chain, so that Moshiach will be greeted by an ehrliche Yid.
Period.
I know many reading this are incredulous. ready to throw virtual tomatoes.
So let me clarify
To raise good kids( and this IS the goal), the spouses must be real partners with mutual respect, they must show affection to / for each other, behave as a role model, be knowledgeable enough to talk to your kids about what they need.
Parents need to be their kid’s heros, second to G-d ( for the first 10 years of the child’s life at least) lead by example, inculcate young moldable impressionable, with the right values, so that they grow up to perpetuate this.

So, bottom line, people need to look for a spouse that is number 1, a baal midos tovos! And then a great parent - role model, and is hashkafically similar.
Nothing else really matters.
if these 3 issues are good but one turns down a potential spouse due to, say, hair coloring…well good luck to them.
Not that physically appeal is not important…its just that the attribute of ‘looks’ adds nothing to making a good spouse.

#61

I realize that you are referring to someone who has never been married or had children. I’d be interested in reading what you think the guidelines/reasons should be for someone who already has multiple children (and grandchildren) regarding getting remarried.

#62

i suppose the criteria shouldn’t be much different
you stiil want a mench, you still want a fairly intelligent role model, even if one is past raising kids, meaning oneis on a zivug shieni, the kids/ grandkids will still visit
and you still want similar hashkafos
but i suppose at this point one rather need companionship rather than a co-parent
if that’s indeed the case then one should look for similar interests too.
ironic how a zivug shieni might be more compatible…
on the other hand older people are less pliable so similar interests make more sense at this stage

#63

Just as an FYI, on Motza’ei Shabbas 14 & 21 Oct 17, Headlines radio the following programs on this topic:

The web address is http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/ . These are also available via the headlines app.

10/14/17 The Shidduch Crisis and Lashon Hara in Shidduchim
The Shidduch Crisis and Lashon Hara in Shidduchim

with Yisrael “Freddy” Friedman - Acclaimed Shadchan - 8:45
with HaRav Shmuel Kamenetzky, Shlit"a - Rosh HaYeshiva, Philadelphia - 26:55
with HaRav Mendel Shafran, Shlit"a - Rosh HYeshiva, Noam HaTorah, B’nei Brak and Posek - 30:10
with HaRav Nissan Kaplan Shlit"a - Maggid Shiur, Mir Yerushalayim - 34:00
with HaRav Elchonon Adler Shlit"a - Rosh Yeshiva, Yitzchak Elchonon - 42:05
with HaRav Zev Smith, Shlit"a - R"M, Yeshiva Torah Vodaas - 104:45

and

10/21/17 Is There a Shidduch Crisis? — How much should a Shadchan be paid?
Is There a Shidduch Crisis? — How much should a Shadchan be paid?

with Rabbi Ari Senter, Shlit"a - Rabbinic Administrator, Kof-K - 15:20
with Rabbi Shlomo Dickman, Shlit"a - Author, Shadchanus B’Halacha - 35:20
with Rabbi Shaya Ostrow, LCSW - Noted Author, Consultant for Shidduchim Organizations - 54:48

1 Like
#64

Blockquote “I personally found the biggest problem in shidduchim that the shaddchanim try very hard to hide many serious problems about another side and then it becomes only a wasting of time and coach, brings much disappointment and hurtful feelings from the both sides.”

I couldn’t agree with you more. I am what is considered an “older” single and I can’t tell you how many times a guy has been suggested to me for what seems like the simple fact that we are both single. What is the point of filling out form after form, answering question after question if the shadchanim don’t take the answers into account when suggesting a potential match? As you’ve noted, this is a common practice (to both men and women) and it’s not only unhelpful and a waste of everyone’s time, but it’s also insulting. Just because I may not be 22 anymore doesn’t mean I will loosen my standards to the point that I will go out with any unworthy man simply because we are both “available.”

1 Like
#65

my mom married a concentration camp survivor, a man who lost everyone and everything (except his Torah chinuch). I have some excellent friends but none of them would ever have married a man like my dad with his “baggage”. Food for thought…

#66

The beard issue is actually kabbalistic in nature and that is why chassidim mostly have untrimmed beards. This is not the forum to discuss the matter, but if you are a woman reading this, I would suggest you look in it before rejecting a man with a beard. Also, a man who has chosen to grow a beard knows that he is giving up his vanity for a holier purpose. It is a really huge thing. These men have generally done a lot of inner spiritual work.

1 Like
#67

Raising good kids-wholesome, productive, leading their lives with yiras and ahavas Hashem is a HUGE accomplishment!!!

1 Like
#68

It is not true. The Torah values are the same regardless time we live in. We are talking about hiding real problem with health, mental disabilities, that makes a shidduch not suitable for someone, who mentioned it to the shaddchanim as a warning criteria. Yet, such shidduchim are suggested again and again only because a person is still single.

Based on my experience I can say that i appreciate to these shaddchanim, who was honest providing all the important information about a suggested shidduch. In many such cases, I didn’t say NO right away, but I thought that I could possibly live with a spouse with some certain health issues because I’m not perfect either.

Nobody likes to be cheated, especially in shidduchim. How can we build a beautiful Torah Home on a cracked base? Every misleading is a crack in a relationship. We try to be very honest with HKB". Why don’t we act in the same way of the integrity in shidduchim?

#69

I know of a shadchan who discussed with me any “baggage” that she should bring up with the other person first and which to leave to me. So not all shadchanim hide all.

1 Like
#70
1 Like
#71

There is another great shiur regarding the shidduchim:
The best advice you’ll ever get to find your shidduch
Chayei Sorah 5778
HaRav Yisroel Brog SHLITA
Published on Nov 9, 2017

#72

There are B"H many shaddchanim who try very hard to help people to get married and they do it sincerely from their hearts as they would do it for their own children.

We all know that when the Right One will come, all information that needed to be revealed, will be mentioned, and all that is not important to know before the marriage will be miraculously avoided.

As Rabbi Y. Brog emphasizes we should rely on Hashem only and not to worry about anything that comes from the people. Nobody is in control of Hashem’s will. When He wants to give, He does it in all the ways that we are not able to understand.

#73

When people first starting discussing the “Shidduch Crisis” and trying to come up with the reason for it, in approximately 2004, there were many theories raised (mainly in the “Letters to the Editor” section of the Yated :))
One possibility raised as to why there seem to be more boys than girls (in a letter to the editor in the Yated :slight_smile: ) was precisely what you wrote. If all the resumes go to the boys first, and the girl is only told about the boy if he chose to say yes to her from the hundreds of resumes he was sent, then obviously, the average boy will get many more suggestions than the average girl.

The idea that the reason for the crisis is because of the dating-age factor was only possible reason raised, but that was the one that got all the attention, and the above reason got none.

Supposedly, the reason the shidduchim go to the boys first is because girls are more sensitive and will be hurt if they get a no. But I don’t think I agree with the reasoning. I’m not sure that a boy would be any less hurt. Also, this way, the girls feel hurt because they have no suggestions.

#74

Hi Karen I too am over 40 and like you once the matchmaker gets my age they experience confusion from having spoken with and seen me yet suddenly a wall goes up… you’re 47 ?!? Then it’s over. And yet What can we do? I am me, you are you, God has someone for each of us. It seems matchmakers don’t want us in their pool. We must find who will work with this “older” crowd. We are growing in numbers sadly yet fortunately— as strange as that statement is!